We, of course, need to provide a certain portfolio for customers in order to create a certain volume as a company. And for us that also includes a vehicle up to the size of the #5. But that is our outer boundary, which must be clearly said. What we bring into this is the smart DNA, which has always been important to us. Of course, in terms of external dimensions it is not the same as a fortwo, but many other features that matter to us are included, especially in design and space concept.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The same designers who are now also working on the #2 have contributed to the smart #5 as well. We have integrated that into the vehicle. And of course we can also bring technology into our brand world, which is excellent. That is why we launched the #5, and we are convinced it is a vehicle that fits into our portfolio.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We also see success \u2014 in fact, the #5 is performing positively. And we had the highest order intake ever for the #5 last month. So the vehicle is currently still growing, even though it has already been on the market for some months. We therefore still see opportunities in this segment. That gives us great pleasure, because I also have to admit: if you assess smart from its origin as a two-seater brand, you would not have necessarily come up with the #5.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But now that we have introduced it and it is increasingly visible on the roads, we see that it is completely fine for customers. And we are addressing a very specific customer group that is looking exactly for such vehicles \u2014 especially within a fully electric brand.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n Looking at your customers, who is the typical smart customer? Is it also a ‘smart’ type of person, or how do you define your customers?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n If you take the smart product range, including 1, #3, and #5, then we are not talking about beginner drivers. That must be clearly said. These are relatively high-income people, who consciously say they want to drive electric, or who have already driven electric vehicles \u2014 for example, from other brands that were very early pioneers \u2014 and then switch to us. Either because they find the car more attractive or because they have other reasons to drive it. That is the typical profile. These are not very young people \u2014 more in the range of 40 to 60 years. That is where the target group begins, and it is a high-income group. The interesting thing is now the #2, because that takes us into a completely different world. We are talking about people between 18 and 86 years old. So the spread becomes much broader. But these are the typical customers we see today.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n That sounds like a brand that is continuing to develop. Let\u2019s look at Europe, which is crucial for smart. When you look at the different countries, where do you currently see the strongest momentum for smart?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n The strongest momentum I currently see is in Germany. That is a market that is showing very strong growth at the moment. You can also see that in the German Federal Motor Transport Authority (Kraftfahrtbundesamt – KBA) registration figures. And that is not all \u2014 there will be much more in the coming months. That is something we are very pleased about.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There are several factors at play. One of them is the impact of subsidies \u2014 something I would not have expected to this extent. After all, these incentives are quite narrowly defined and don\u2019t really align with the customer base I described earlier, which tends to be more high-income. But that is definitely one factor. Then there are also other topics, for example the conflict in the Middle East, which has an influence on energy costs. And where many people are now either moving towards electric mobility or at least showing interest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n These impulses are clearly relevant for growth in Germany. At the same time, it is also very important for smart that our vehicles are increasingly present in the streetscape and therefore more visible and in demand. So Germany is definitely a strong market. But countries like Spain also show very good momentum. In France we see solid development. And we are growing very strongly in the Nordics, especially in Norway. There we have a lot of satisfaction \u2014 strongly driven again by the #5. It is always very market-specific. Those countries are very focused on such vehicles. Those are currently the key markets where we see strong growth.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n Those are also markets with a much higher level of maturity in electric mobility \u2014 Norway in particular, where almost all new registrations are already electric. But you\u2019ve raised a key point: external factors. Rising fuel prices driven by geopolitical tensions, as well as local subsidy schemes in Germany, continue to play a role. How do you see public perception of electric mobility evolving, and to what extent do these factors influence your business?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n We all know there are cycles. And I would say the last five years were not exactly the peak phase of electric mobility. We have gone through very difficult periods. Now I believe we are seeing a counter-movement again \u2014 unfortunately, partly triggered by unpleasant situations. But overall, public perception is improving again, and people are understanding that electric driving makes sense. <\/p>\n\n\n\n At the same time, there is also technological development playing a major role. If you look at how charging times have evolved \u2014 from one generation of cars to the next, we are often at half the time or less \u2014 and range is improving at the same time. That is something you no longer see in combustion engines. So there is technological progress, plus macroeconomic effects. It varies by country, but overall there is movement in the right direction. We also see this in order intake, which is ultimately what matters in the automotive business. So I would say we are at the beginning of a new positive phase \u2014 and I believe it will not be short-lived.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n When I look at media coverage in recent weeks, I think of many reports about high fuel prices. There is a lot of complaining at petrol stations. But the reference to electric mobility only comes up very rarely, even though it has long been an established and technically mature alternative. That always feels a bit too short to me. How do you see that?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, that is the case. But I also do not feel comfortable when situations that are caused by things like war are then used for market or commercial gain. That is always a bit difficult, I think.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n But the oil companies do it as well.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, but I am speaking purely personally now. And it has always been the case. I remember the time when we sold smart fortwo models in California. Whenever petrol or diesel prices went up, we sold an incredible number of electric cars. Back then there were also good subsidies. That has always been the pattern. And somehow we seem to have forgotten how cheap fuels have been over the past months and years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Now we are seeing a movement again that we have seen before. And of course, consumers then look at how they can move differently, what alternatives there are. At the same time, we also have an industrial policy situation that cannot be ignored. In Europe, we are still, in total, quite dependent on combustion engines, with supplier industries and OEM structures. So there is probably still a certain cap on how fast things move.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But the logic is clear: electric cars are becoming better and easier to drive, they are extremely fun to drive, they charge quickly, and they are now even becoming more attractive in terms of price, particularly in operating costs. That was already the case before, but now it is much more obvious. That is simply the truth. And anyone who says otherwise, in my view, has not calculated properly.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n Does that mean in reverse that 2026 will clearly be a growth year for smart? After all, in Germany there are currently quite generous discounts on all three models, even despite subsidies.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n That is, of course, clear. I\u2019ve taken on the European role at a point where a strong foundation has already been established over the past years. We are now active in eleven markets directly, plus an additional six so-called GD (General Distributor) markets. In total, that means we are operating across 17 European markets \u2014 a footprint that has been built step by step. Now, however, we are moving into the next phase: scaling the business, with a clear focus on growth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And that is what we will clearly demonstrate this year. We will show significant growth in every country. That is the target, and we are on track. We have already completed the first quarter and can say we are absolutely on the right path. We will show positive development everywhere. That is also necessary, because in the end, we need to move forward as a brand. And we are all the more pleased when we can then introduce the #2 and start selling it from next year. That will, of course, create a completely new situation in terms of volume. And you can imagine that very well, because you still remember how the earlier fortwo worked and what kind of volume opportunity it represents.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n Before we get into that, let\u2019s stay with growth \u2014 and your portfolio. Smart once stood for one car, one concept. Now, with the #1, #3 and #5, that has changed. How do you view this broader setup? And was it also driven by Mercedes-Benz and Geely to expand beyond Europe?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n You have to think about it like this: when we started five years ago, the question was which cars we would enter the market with. At that time, the brand came from a Renault cooperation and we wanted a partner and platform that gave us more options, because we knew with just a single fortwo product as a company we would not survive. That would not work. So we wanted to grow in the compact segment and grow electrically. And we asked ourselves where growth was visible. Clear studies and analyses are showing where demand for electric mobility exists.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That is why we started with the #1 and #3, because there was strong growth in those vehicle segments. We are now operating up to the #5, which is the outer boundary. Within this range, we continue to look for opportunities to offer vehicles that meet customer needs \u2014 electric vehicles that fit those requirements. Of course, this also needs agreement with the shareholders. We are closely aligned with Mercedes-Benz in terms of dealerships and aftersales. Service is also handled via Mercedes-Benz.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So everything is coordinated in the portfolio. No vehicle is not approved in an early phase by the shareholder. It has to fit the overall portfolio. And from my perspective, it is also a very good complement to the Mercedes-Benz portfolio in Europe.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n Smart has grown \u2014 in the truest sense \u2014 but the brand remains clearly recognisable. That brings us to the model many are waiting for: the #2. Even ahead of its market launch, it\u2019s already taking on a certain iconic status, with early prototypes still heavily camouflaged in China. So the question is obvious: is this a return to smart\u2019s roots?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n If we briefly look at how we restarted: I often draw a picture with the #1, #3 and #5, and in the middle there was a gap \u2014 an open space, if you like. That is enormous. In Italy the number is even higher. In cities like Rome \u2014 the mother of all smart cities \u2014 you see them everywhere. So this is a legend coming back. And we know exactly what it has to be. We are extremely motivated to get this car right from a design and engineering perspective. It will be the best two-seater we have ever built.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n So it is a big promise you are making here. But I understand you correctly: this is not simply a return to the roots, but a reinterpretation of the idea? Because there is no other car like this in the European portfolio.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. But one thing is clear: the DNA of the fortwo or the #2 is non-negotiable. That DNA will be preserved. It is built into the new vehicle. It is about agility, about how it moves in urban traffic, about the size of the vehicle, and, of course, about it being electric.<\/p>\n\n\n\n These are aspects that nobody understands better than we do, because we have had this vehicle in the market for 25 years. So it is a reinterpretation, but anyone who sees the car will immediately understand: this is the new fortwo, this is the #2. There will be no doubt about it.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n
You mention the #5. With that vehicle, smart is no longer just the urban niche brand that it used to be. And ultimately, an electric SUV with long range and high charging performance is now something many manufacturers have in their portfolio. So how do you position the smart brand in this context?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n\n
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That is the typical profile.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I say 86 because my mother is 86 and a passionate smart EQ fortwo driver who is already interested in driving the new one. I always find it quite amusing how interested she is. But that shows the breadth we are dealing with. And we also have a very wide range of applications \u2014 from, for example, social care services that urgently need such a vehicle, to someone in Munich who says they want to go to the Viktualienmarkt and leave their large luxury vehicles in the garage and instead take their smart.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n
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And now comes the moment where we place the #2 \u2014 or fortwo, as many will still call it \u2014 into that gap. And I think many will then understand the brand much better again and perceive it more strongly, because we still have a large number of vehicles on the roads, for example in Germany. We are talking about 350,000 to 400,000 fortwo models still in use.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n